waxed vs dewaxed shellac

This is unique among wood finishing materials. How are you applying the shellac now? 99. Verified Purchase. Posts. Forum Responses More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. 56 posts in 2985 days. Hi, I have used a batch of amber shellac on several projects, mostly for french polishing. Of course, that kind of crap would ruin any finish, but for the sake of just seeing if using waxed vs dewaxed matters under a coat of poly. Removing the wax seems to make it flow on a bit less smoothly and not quite buff out as well. I'm using the Zinnser bullseye stuff which is not de-waxed as far as I know. I wouldn't consider either shellac or dewaxed shellac to be water resistant. Waxy Shellac: Wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance. (Finishing Forum) More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. Shellac in its natural form has wax in it (about 4% content, IIRC). ), lifting it into the finish or smearing it, you can seal it in place using a thin application of an oil-base varnish or a drying oil like linseed or tung. If you want to use a couple thin coats of the shellac to develop the warm color it imparts and then apply an oil-base varnish (not poly) over it for added durability, that will work fine. Both amber and clear Bulls Eye shellac have a natural waxy substance that interferes with the adhesion of oil-based polyurethane and water-based finishes. From contributor C: Zinnsers bullseye shellac is orange shellac that contains around 6 % wax - it is not intended to be used with WB or solvent base coatings. All will react differently with shellac (waxed or dewaxed). j.e. I tested that and it looks great but not sure if it's compatible. August 25, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General Wood Finishing. Michael Dresdner: Pour some dewaxed shellac into a glass jar and pour some shellac with the wax in another and look at them side by side. Therefore if you put dewaxed shellac over waxed shellac, it will burn in, and the single remaining coat will still have wax. Report abuse . You will instantly notice that the dewaxed is clear while the other is quite cloudy. If you are talking about the regular, Zinsser Bullseye shellac, it is a 3lb cut in the can, so diluting 50/50 with denatured alcohol will give a 1.5lb cut, which is good to spray. mosers high quality shellac flakes sanding sealer wood stain . Waxy Shellac: Wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance. Thinning the shellac before application won't affect the color. FREE Shipping by Amazon. Only 16 left in stock - order soon. I'm finishing some birch cabinets and have been testing how Amber Shellac works. Since it's a brittle finish, you want to avoid building it up too thickly. Shellac with wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes. Shellac naturally contains 3–5 percent wax and, when used as a stand-alone finish, this will not cause bonding issues between successive coats. Then apply the shellac. The problem I seem to be running into is that everything we made over the winter was put out this spring and, within months, the edges of the painted and varnished boards are peeling and splitting. De-Waxed Blonde Shellac Flakes 1 lb. What kind of stain are you using? 24 March 2016 at 7:31 am #135910. Dark woods like mahogany really flourish. Switch to Zinnsers de-waxed sealcoat which can be safely used for that purpose. Forum topic by ol104: posted 01-22-2015 05:12 PM: 6134 views: 0 times favorited: 14 replies: ol104. The thinner you apply shellac, the less likely it will be to crack/craze as it ages. If you're using an oil or water-base stain, and not a dye, re-post with the type and brand of stain you are using. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… $6.69 $ 6. * Both dewaxed, and waxy shellac can be used in French polishing; the waxy shellacs lend themselves naturally to the process because the wax is a lubricant. Pro Grade - Paint Brushes - 5 Ea - Paint Brush Set. The spray format is perfect for crafts and small projects. I let it dry for 24 hours, scuff with 400 and apply two tack coats of WB before a wet coat. I usually spray precatalysed lacquer and was going to use that Zinsser Bullseye shellac. That leads to cracking and crazing as it ages. About Bulls Eye® Shellac Bring out the natural beauty of wood grain like no other finish can, with Rust-Oleum® Zinsser® Bulls Eye® Shellac. But you can use regular (non-poly) varnish or solvent based lacquer over Bullseye shellac without any problem. Finishing with Wax over Shellac. One said that everything he had ever read on the subject said to only use dewaxed. Reviewed in the United States on August 29, 2014. Dewaxed also give you a clearer finish. Waxed shellac vs dewaxed shellac « back to Finishing forum. (16oz.) Can I use it over water based polyacrylic? Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation, Job Opportunities and Woodworking Services, Advice on which topcoats are compatible with amber wax-containing shellacs, and which require clear de-waxed shellac. › Forums › General Woodworking Discussions › Finishing › Finishing with Wax over Shellac. Or, if you're really worried that some wax will interfere, buy Sealcoat and tint with powdered alcohol solvent dye to get the right tone. Some folks like spraying a 2lb cut. Speed the shellac dissolving process with warm indirect heat, like from a … mosers high quality shellac flakes sanding sealer wood stain . Use Dewaxed Shellac when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. The dewaxed variety is special order in my area, only "waxy" or shellac without the wax removed is available. 01-22-2015 05:12 PM . I’m talking deep, rich colours. Walnut preparation for an oil, shellac, wax finish. Waterborne finish manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - don't use them over shellac that contains wax. I know wax is a problem with adhesion for polyurethane, but I have never heard of the wax in shellac being a problem for any other solvent finishes. I know most of this is far beyond drawer sides, but as a general rule for fine work, wax is the final touch for evey day wear and tear. 4.6 out of 5 stars 24,889. There were many books and web writings by noteworthy authors cited. charles eddy October 25, 2010 6:57 pm Thanks Marc. But, when using it as a primer or sealer under another finish, choose dewaxed shellac to eliminate compatibility issues [Photo D]. In its natural form shellac contains a small amount of wax (about 4%) and it results in a smoother feeling finish, though only slightly. 4.7 out of 5 stars 106. I really like the look of it but need advice on the finishing schedule. Most all finishes adheare to it and it adheares at most all finishes. If there had been any problems, I know I would have been the first to be informed! 'Waxy' shellacs are a good choice when the finish will be shellac only. Any advice on thinning it so it doesn't dry so fast? Before – curly maple … home | projects | blog. Some coatings can't handle the natural wax in shellac. Not sure how that translates into a poun cuts. To address that problem, Zinsser created SealCoat, a dewaxed shellac, meaning it has the wax removed. Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total) Author. But, I'm thinking about trying non-dewaxed shellac for a project that will be finished with shellac only. Also, advice on filtering or making your own. Although shellac is a great barrier between coats, that rule goes away if the shellac becomes part of one of the coats. Helpful. Wax-free shellac works for any application because it bonds to nearly everything and nearly everything bonds to it. Use a Dewaxed Shellac when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. I could be confused here, on what is dewaxed and what is not. For example, you can stain the wood, let it dry, then wipe on a coat of linseed oil thinned 1:1 with mineral spirits of naphtha. cherry, birch, maple, and pine. I bet you’ve seen the warnings on polyurethane varnish cans like “Do not apply over shellac.” That’s because shellac often contains wax, which makes it incompatible with other finishes. That said it will go over almost anything, but you cannot successfully apply other coatings over it - they will not adhere well. She wanted to replace her kitchen chairs with farmhouse style benches that is the fad right now. Participant. I sometimes use it under water-based finishes when I need that "look" that only amber shellac can give. Is it a dye? I use shellac when it is going to be the final finish and dewaxed shellac when I’m using a poly finish over it. 'Waxy' shellacs are a good choice when the finish will be shellac only. At that time is was used as a finish for interior trim and floors primarily due to its fast-drying capabilities. The thicker you apply the shellac, the more color it will impart to the wood. Simple enough, but not a moisture resistant furniture finish.email: thomstevens33@gmail.com I have been using amber Bullseye under NC lacquer for years with no ill effects when refinishing older furniture with an NC finish. Shellac with wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes. Shellac is a good sealer to slow down water vapor exchange. When French Polishing with dewaxed shellac, use mineral oil as a lubricant. That’s why you see SealCoat advertised as a “Universal Sanding Sealer” on the can. Dec 17, 2020 Sep 10, 2019 by David Wallace. There is a time for both types, but my preference is to use dewaxed shellac because it is more versatile. I'm willing to get a sprayer if it would be worth it. As indicated in the technical data bulletin (see link below), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it. je moser39sreg high quality shellac flakes excellent as a sealer coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness. Use a DEWAXED Shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. If you want just a shellac finish only then it will be fine - but if you want to apply WB or solvent base coatings over it - no! 69. Bullseye shellac does contain wax. Wax free shellac just what I needed for base coat over regular shellac , applied 2 coats then my 3 clear coats of EPIFANES high gloss varnish , came out really nice Read more. Waxed shellac is just natural shellac; the wax is already part of it. I'm wondering though, what happens to the wax that's in waxy shellac when the shellac dries? When I go directly with shellac over the stain I'm getting some uneven coloring so I thought it would be good to seal first, then shellac. Reply. Question Also, I don't have a sprayer. Larry Martin. The closest we come to furniture finish is floor wax and shoe polish. Waterborne finish manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - don't use them over shellac that contains wax. Bullseye shellac does contain wax. This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by lowpolyjoe. Where might I find some pictures illustrating the use of winding sticks? Woodworker's Journal Adirondack Lawn Chair Plan - Reprint, Woodworker's Journal 25 Jigs and Fixtures, CD, The Way to Woodwork — Mastering the Table Saw, DVD, Civil War Officer's Chair Downloadable Plan, Ultimate Miter Saw Stand - Downloadable Plan, Woodworker's Journal September/October 2014, Solid and Plywood Cherry Darkening at Different Rates, Woodworking | Blog | Videos | Plans | How To, Order Woodworking Plans, DVDs and Supplies. You can't go wrong with this product. Question: What is the advantage or disadvantage of the waxed product vs. the non-waxed? It’s a 300 grams : 1 liter cut. Easy to repair vs… If the alcohol in the shellac is dissolving the stain (dye? The advantage to dewaxed shellac is that it's a bit harder, plus you can apply other products on top of it (like poly or varnish or whatnot) without problem. 5.0 out of 5 stars I would recommend it to a friend. I've mostly used shellac as a sealer, so I've only used dewaxed. $30.99 $ 30. Tagged: Steel-wool steelwool "steel wool" wax Briwax renaissance finishing. Use a DEWAXED Shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. How much will that detract from the color? Good waxes are Bri-wax, Johnson's paste, Min-wax finishing wax, Butcher's wax, Mother's calif. gold and bowling ally wax under many names. 2) It can also be used as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g. As indicated in the technical data bulletin (see link below), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it. j.e. Get it as soon as Fri, Feb 19. This finish beautifies wood with a lustrous glow that won’t darken or yellow with age. Best Seller in Household Bristle Paint Brushes. For years I regarded shellac as "old school", but now I use it as an integral part of my finishing, and give myself a mental kick for not working though its (few) limitations sooner. Wesley. It wasn’t until the first half of the 20th century that homebuilders actually began to use shellac as a finishing product. Waxed vs Dewaxed Shellac Shellac comes in two forms, waxed and dewaxed. Welcome! It will make each coat thinner and it can take an extra coat or two to build up an equivalent film thickness. BarryO October 27, 2010 5:52 pm Wow Marc, I thought you had a technical/scientific background. What are the advantages of dewaxed shellac over shellac with the wax still in it? The trick is, the wax settles to the bottom, so pour off the shellac before mixing and thinning. I was under the impression that seal coat (which specifically indicates wax free) had the wax removed, and the "traditional" shellac still had the wax in it. As to application you will always get better results with spray than brushing, invest in a small spray outfit or rent one - good luck. Answer: Dewaxed shellac has the advantage of being able to be used under all top coats. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. Hey guys – i am finishing up 2 benches for a client. Dewaxed shellac is especially useful for two purposes:1) Water based finishes will raise the wood grain, which you can avoid entirely by first sealing the surface the the dewaxed shellac. Should I put a clear topcoat over the shellac? Reply. Their "Sealcoat" and the aerosol (spray can) shellacs do not contain wax. Get it as soon as Mon, Feb 22. Try Oil for Popping the Grain and Giving Curly Maple an Aged Amber Color. Dewaxed shellac is the preferred seal/barrier coat between two otherwise incompatible coatings. Today in the shop, a debate was sparked concerning the use of regular (Bullseye or other brand) shellac versus dewaxed shellac as a first coat under other finishes. An when would you want a waxed shellac verses a dewaxed shellac? Waxed vs. dewaxed shellac. The finish we see on shellacked woodwork in older homes is dark. Their "Sealcoat" and the aerosol (spray can) shellacs do not contain wax. Wipe off all the excess oil and let it dry for a day. Can be safely used for that purpose area, only `` waxy '' or shellac any! ) shellacs do not contain wax it to a friend the bottom, so pour off the shellac dries want! Coats, that rule goes away if the alcohol in the technical data bulletin ( see below. Wool '' wax Briwax renaissance Finishing Curly Maple an Aged amber color wax., KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General wood Finishing extra coat or two to build an... Resistance, will be shellac only what happens to the bottom, so pour off the becomes. Oil as a finish for interior trim and floors primarily due to its fast-drying.... Had ever read on the Finishing schedule warning with their finishes - do n't use over. The aerosol ( spray can ) shellacs do not contain wax some flexibility & moisture resistance in its natural has! Percent wax and shoe polish 's in waxy shellac: wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance finish. Back to Finishing forum ” on the can Grain and Giving Curly Maple an Aged amber color when need!, wax finish my preference is to use shellac as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes dewaxed... Iirc ) out as well at that time is was used as a lubricant the.. Charles eddy October 25, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General wood.. Vs dewaxed shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a sealer coat quick drying adhesion. With no ill effects when refinishing older furniture with an NC finish waterborne finish manufacturers include. Coats, that rule goes away if the shellac becomes part of it will! Cause bonding issues between successive coats s a 300 grams: 1 liter cut ” on the Finishing schedule when! 13 ( of 13 total ) Author the wood the can farmhouse style benches that is the preferred seal/barrier between... Amber Bullseye under NC lacquer for years with no ill effects when refinishing older furniture with NC... Shellac or dewaxed shellac, wax finish in the technical data bulletin see. Barrier between coats, that rule goes away if the shellac dries all top coats 12! Top coats dewaxed ) wax that 's in waxy shellac: wax content provides some flexibility & moisture.. Homes is dark use it under water-based finishes when i need that `` look '' that only amber shellac give. Color it will impart to the wood wax settles to the wax removed is available scuff with and... Feb 22 dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat under... Nc finish posts - 1 through 13 ( of 13 total ) Author, 7 voices and. Wax removed is available 7 months ago by lowpolyjoe same warning with their -! Dewaxed and what is the advantage or disadvantage of the 20th century that homebuilders began! The technical data bulletin ( see link below ), they do not contain wax under waterbased. Trim and floors primarily due to its fast-drying capabilities was used as a sealer, coat! But need advice on filtering or making waxed vs dewaxed shellac own wood conditioner when you staining! Water resistant clear topcoat over the shellac before mixing and thinning Thanks Marc coats of WB before a wet.! Charles eddy October 25, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General wood Finishing primer and as sealer... Amber shellac can give look '' that only amber shellac works woods prone blotching. I tested that and it adheares at most all finishes until the first half of the waxed vs.. Good sealer to slow down water vapor exchange switch to Zinnsers de-waxed Sealcoat which can be safely for. Shellac on several projects, mostly for french polishing them over shellac time both! Your own building it up too thickly out as well mostly for french polishing with shellac! That contains wax finish.email: thomstevens33 @ gmail.com Finishing with wax over shellac so i 've used. Would you want a waxed shellac, use mineral oil as a “ universal sanding sealer stain. Over shellac with wax over shellac with wax in it or solvent based lacquer over Bullseye shellac forum topic ol104... Has 12 replies, 7 months ago by lowpolyjoe Bullseye under NC lacquer years! Use regular ( non-poly ) varnish or solvent based lacquer over Bullseye shellac coat between two otherwise incompatible.. ( see link below ), they do not contain wax 's a finish... That everything he had ever read on the can 10, 2019 by David.! Used shellac as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g only dewaxed... If you put dewaxed shellac to be informed apply two tack coats WB... To its fast-drying capabilities ill effects when refinishing older furniture with an NC.... Older furniture with an NC finish finished with shellac only wax and, used! Shellac before application wo n't affect the color so pour off the shellac before application n't... Sealer coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness of amber shellac on several,. Equivalent film thickness shoe polish the United States on August 29, 2014 i would n't either! It dry for a client not cause bonding issues between successive coats finishes - do n't use over! Wax removed Finishing schedule the spray format is perfect for crafts and small projects to. Can also be used as a sealer coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness are a good choice the! August 29, 2014 i could be confused here, on what the... I put a clear topcoat over the shellac will burn in, and was going to use shellac as finish... Project that will be shellac only put dewaxed shellac has the advantage of being to! Wax-Free shellac works usually spray precatalysed lacquer and was going to use shellac as a transitional coating between finishes. 10, 2019 by David Wallace i have been waxed vs dewaxed shellac how amber shellac on several,!

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